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Middle aged male and I'm wondering, at my age, what people typically get from relationships. Strange question for someone my age and I think I know the answer to this but something seems "off" in my world so I'm questioning my expectations here. If I'm unhappy, why would I have gotten into this relationship, you may ask. Well, it wasn't always like this. In the early days, things were quite different. We've evolved to this point, I suppose.
I should preface all of this with the fact that I speak to my mother, briefly on the phone for a few minutes several times a week. These are very short calls (under 10 minutes) where we are just checking in on each other. She lives several hours away so we only see each other one to three times per year. I also have a best friend who lives several states from here. We speak on the phone for several hours at a time (2 to 4 hours) but only call once every three months or so. We don't message each other regularly as things are happening the moment, we just catch up after we've both collected many stories to share. I see him for about a week once every three years or so. I can also say that we have a large family here. I had two children before my wife, she had two children before me, and we had one together. Due to this dynamic, there's a large age gap between some of them.
To preface the story with information about my wife, I can tell you that her mother lives in town. Her mother didn't win any awards for raising children so they seem to only speak when they need to but, she is in town, they speak often, and we see her many more times per year than we see my own mother. My wife also has two best friends - one is her aunt of about the same age and another is a lady she used to live by and work with. The lady she used to work with lives in town and my wife sees her many times per year. The lady comes here to visit at our house sometimes, they meet in town for meals, or they meet in town for drinks. I am often invited to these events, I will admit, and have joined on several occasions but, to be clear, they are the best friends. If something happened to my wife, I know I'd never see or hear from this girl again. I'm not complaining about it, just pointing out the dynamics here. But her aunt lives just down the street from us. We see her a lot and they message each other daily. If someone toots, they feel impelled to message the other about it. "I'm sick", "Look at this mess the kids made here hahaahah", "Guess what happened to me just now in the store", etc., etc. All the time, just messaging each other about every little thing. So they are best friends and related by blood. That's a thick bond.
My wife and I have been together for nearly ten years now and I'm seriously trying to understand this relationship. There's this stereotypical explanation of husbands pushing themselves too hard in life while the wife sits back, like a terrible manager, telling you that you're not doing a good enough job or that you're not doing enough. I see posts like this in comedic memes regularly and I think I'm starting to see why they are so common.
Ok, so let's move on to it, shall we?
One could be in a relationship for money but that's not the case here. My wife, even at her age, has an entry level job with a very low salary. In fact, she has two nephews who are half her age and each of them has a higher hourly wage than one - one of them by a lot. My salary is four times higher. I understand salaries can't be the same and, in many cases, they likely aren't too very similar but I'm pointing out that I'm not "using her for her money".
There's this funny thing amongst men that we put up with a lot so we can have intimate relations. But, again, that's not really happening here. It's rare. We can EASILY go more than a month without doing ANYTHING at all. Oh, I want to, for sure. But she's not into it. We can make plans for such a thing but, as we already know, sometime always comes up - her back hurts, her head hurts, she's sick, etc. And these things are likely true and I feel bad for her but, either way, this is me pointing out that SOMETHING will prevent us from having that scheduled alone time together. A SUPER common conversation we have here is that she will say "Later, when the kids go to bed", or "Later, when everyone leaves", or "Later when we get home from town" and I always respond with "But later never comes." And you know what, I'm correct. Later never comes. So I'm not in this relationship for the sex. We used to have sex a lot, like daily. This is more than couples typically have sex. But now, we're on the opposite end of the spectrum where it almost never happens. After giving birth to our child, she started having these crazy mood swings and started taking a medication to help regulate that. It was about this time that she started not caring about sex. We were also swingers for a window of time. Still sleeping with each other all the time, but also sleeping with other couples. We had some issues from that and eventually my wife said she didn't want to do it any more so we stopped. Then I was getting no sex from other people and no sex from her.
Ok, ok, so let's continue with the stereotypes then - you're probably guessing that she goes to work and then comes home and does all the chores, right? Wrong again. I work from home so it's not much on me to do a load of laundry each day. It's like magically her damn closet just keeps filling itself up with clean clothes. Crazy, right? If she actually does laundry, I'm usually forced to get involved at some point because she typically leaves a load in the washer (these will probably have to be washed again) or a load in the dryer (these are now wrinkled) so I have to fix the situation on the following day while she's at work because "she forgot". We have a dishwasher and she does wash dishes sometimes but I almost don't like it when she does because she does such a terrible job at it. She places items in the dishwasher incorrectly so that they will fill up with water and will need to be washed again. For the items that have to be washed by hand, you've got about a 50/50 shot of those actually getting cleaned. She may was the inside of this container, for example, but you grab it to put it away only to find that the outside of the container is covered in grease. What? How? Why? So there you have it. In a nutshell, I do most of the chores around here and if she actually does something, it's probably done incorrectly. And that "Later never comes" bit doesn't just apply to sex. No, it applies to chores as well. I can say - "I'm about to empty the litter box" and she'll say "Just leave it and I'll get it in a minute because you've already done enough today and you emptied the litter box the last two times". Ok, so I can walk away from that but, as you've probably already guessed, she never actually does this so I wind up doing it anyway. I've learned to just go ahead and do the chore at the time it needs to be done and totally disregard the fact that she says she's going to do it later.
Ok, how about conversation? I mean, that one has to be a given, yes? Actually, we don't have "normal chat" very often. In the early days, we texted dirty stuff to each other often but, over time, as I'm sure happens with many developing relationships, the texts evolved from "I can't wait to see you tonight because I'm going to do this dirty thing to you" to "Can you pick up a gallon of milk on your way home". The in-person conversations were interesting in the early days because we had a lot of "this one time" moments where we were sharing about our pasts. These days, it feels like we don't have much to talk about, I suppose. We can try to visit but Tim Cook and the marketing team at Apple have hooked my wife. She's seemingly addicted to her iPhone. I'm totally fine with people playing little games or using their phones for stuff. I do it too. But she turns her on and looses track of time and gets in a zone where she's not really hearing what's happening or aware of things going on. I've told her, on many occasions, I wish I was an iPhone. Ha. I try to converse with her but she doesn't have much to share, I suppose. Oh well, back to feeding this fake cow or connecting these colored dots on the ole' iPhone, I suppose, for her.
A month or two ago, the two of us went to town with her aunt and uncle to have drinks. She had gotten into a game of pool with the uncle leaving her aunt at the table with me. We had all had a few drinks by this point and I know the aunt, being not just a relative, but also a best friend, knows everything about my wife and what she's thinking. I explained her her, in a brief comment, that my wife and I had some issues but I really needed to find a way to fix the sex thing because I'm going crazy with the lack of it under our roof. The aunt then says that the swinging thing didn't help our situation back in the day and that the reason she doesn't want to have sex may not be a medical side effect from this medication. It may in fact, she says, be a mental disconnect. She further explained that she feels the order I rank the people in my life is - my mother, my best friend, the kids, and then my wife. What the fuck? How in the world could she possible think this? I speak to my mom often, sure, but the chats are always very short. My mom lives far away so I don't see her often. How could my wife, or her aunt, think this? And then my best friend ranked second. How? I speak to him on the phone for hours, yes, but only once every three months or so. The words of the list are being spoke from a woman who messages my wife DAILY, sees her at least once a week, and face time calls her/video calls her several times per week. And I'm ok with that, really I am, but I am trying to figure out how you think my quarterly calls with my best friend who lives many states away could be considered an interference with the relationship I have with my wife when the two of you are connected at the hip. I'm just in dismay. The whole thing is crazy. How could you come up with such a list? Did the aunt make this list herself or did she get this from my wife? Either way, the list has to be based on information my wife has shared with the aunt.
And this all boils up the point of me writing this because our child was recently very sick. I was here taking care of her while my wife was in town at a birthday party for another relative. In her defense, I did tell her she could and should go as it was an important celebration we were all to attend. I volunteered to stay home so she could go be with family - including the aunt, of course. So I stay here and deal with all kinds of "gross" stuff ALL DAY. My wife comes home that afternoon and thanks me for what I've done, apologizes for not being here, and tells me she'll "give me something" when the sun goes down. Oh, it's going to be one of those "Later never comes moments". An hour or two later, the sickness hits my wife and trust me when I say, she was not faking this. She was completely find and like the flip of a switch, got sick as a dog. So now I'm taking care of both of them. Can you get me some water, can you put ice in it, can you get me a blanket, can you get me some meds, etc. for the rest of that day and all the next day. Obviously I didn't get my sex but that wouldn't have happened anyway. She would have had something else happen to her, I promise. I felt bad for her being sick but I'm trying to work, trying to take care of them, cleaning and disinfecting the whole house, and I just kind of snapped. I didn't say anything to her but, internally, I just got angry about it all. All of these thoughts just came rushing in and I'm realizing I'm pushing myself to the point of going fucking nuts where I stay busy ALL THE TIME trying to take care of them and things around here and to be told, after all that, that I don't do enough or that I don't have my priorities right where my wife is at the bottom of the list? Are you kidding me?
So, seriously, what is it? What is it that people get out of relationships? What should I be expecting here based on what's commonly going on "out there" with you all? I feel like I'm making all the money, doing most of the work, and being told it's not enough. Something can't be right about this. It just can't. Is this normal? Is this what people are going through?
Thoughts?
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I am the OP. To add to this, I've just messaged my wife letting her know we need to talk. She says she'll pick up some drinks on the way home and we can hang out, drink, and discuss tonight. I just absolutely have to be taking something for granted here, I just have to be. There's no way this is normal. Maybe she is doing well more than I'm giving her credit for. So I have to ask her, am I being an asshole for not recognizing your contributions to this relationship? If she is contributing, especially if she's contributing a lot, then I'm the asshole for taking her for granted and I need to kick myself for such a thing and make a strong effort to correct this. But, If I'm correct, and I discover that I'm pushing myself to the limits only to be told I'm not doing enough or good enough, then something needs to change on her side of the fence. I'll not tell her that I posted here and I'll not share responses any of you but I am still curious to know what you all are getting out of your relationships. What is it that you appreciate about your husband/wife?
ReplyFor some reason it reminds of the time where my mother told me it's important to phrase a man for his efforts and what he does, even for the most trival of things like taking the trash out hahaha.
It makes any man feel good to get compliments and be phrased for what they do, along with their efforts.
I would suggest putting the phones away, sitting down and speak with your wife about how you're really feeling lately.
Ask her about how she's also feeling and really converse. Explain how you feel about the lack of sexual intimacy, how you don't feel appreciated for the efforts and the things that you. Tell her how you would like for her to put in a little more effort into sharing the responsibilities of house hold chores and what she can improve on constructively. Try having a routine where once a week you both do chores together, each do chores but obviously trash and spills etc... should be taken care of right away. I'm sure your wife will listen, understand and appreciate you for opening up to her. You can even ask her if she's going through something and if she needs some sort of therapy to help her from this possible "disconnection".
Another thing that you could try doing and suggest to your wife is having date nights once in awhile, just the both of you alone.
Look into trying different hobbies that you can both do together, would enjoy and have some change in routine alittle.
Be a little spontaneous and rekindle your relationship with your wife but you need to speak to her. Do activities together when you both have the extra time, go for walks in the park, have a little picnic, go to a spa together and get a couples massage, go on a mini road trip and if you want go on a vacation together. Can even do something nice for your wife by getting her flowers randomly and see if it makes her feel a little better too. Write her a little love poem, love letter or love note out of the blue for how you feel about her and what she means to you. Your wife may reciprocate the sweet gestures that you do aswell and you'll both feel good. You can do little things that can help rekindle your relationship and enjoy it all over again. You can even try a new recipe together and cook together, as that can be fun if you enjoy cooking. I believe you're a good husband that loves his wife and I have no doubt that your wife loves you too. I admire that you have been married for 10 years with your wife and still remaining together throughout the hardships etc...
Being together for such a significant time in what seems to be a healthy and stable relationship, is something to be celebrated and proud of. Today alot of people are just not as committed in seeking meaningful, long term and serious relationships.
Alot of people are just looking for fun, having flings, one night stands and friends with benefits etc...
Some people in serious relationships end up cheating, than properly communicating, co-operating with their
significant other and working on their relationships. Some people today are having too high of unrealistic expectations when it comes to relationships, than what is relatively realistic within relationships and of people they're with. Divorce rates are pretty high these days as many people within relationships are not putting the effort to work on their marriages, before calling it quits but it depends on the situation. There's alot that's wrong with the dating world and how people go about relationships. To officially answer your question about what is it that people get out of relationships, it all depends on what each person wants and the kind of relationship they have with someone.
I would assume most people get to share experiences with someone, both good and bad. They get to share the laughs and tears with someone. Get to build a strong emotional,physical and mental connection with someone. They get to grow and build a life with someone. They get to have and be intimate with someone, than be "intimate" with themselves alone. They get someone who's there for them through thick and thin, who will support them no matter what and it's reciprocal. People get to feel loved and give the love they have within themselves back to someone else.
They get to share their life with someone, to grow old together and enjoy life together. There's also health benefits when people get into healthy relationships they have higher empathy, less stress, less anxiety, less depression,higher self-esteem etc...
Every relationship takes time, effort, patience and energy to make it work but last in the long run. It's not easy and it takes work as it's impossible to have a perfect relationship. I honestly don't believe human beings are designed and meant to be alone.
I hope i made sense, that my comment helped and answers your questions.
All the best to you.
-_l
ReplySeveral days have gone by and, to add to that, you weren't signed into an account when you posted your response so I'm not sure you'll see this but....
I wan to start by thanking you for taking the time to read my message and let you know that I really appreciate the response. I've read it, twice in fact, and have taken it to heart.
In response, I can say...
Due to an unusual set of circumstances, my wife wound up coming home very early from work that day. We were scheduled to have drinks and talk that night but, because she came home so early, I carved time out of my day so we could talk while the kids were all at school. I was able to get out a lot with regard to the items that are bothering me but we did get sidetracked and I know I didn't put all my cards on the table. I could have looped back around but the conversation felt it was coming to a natural close so I thought I'd let it stop there and digest what we had talked about. That said, I can confirm that we've had a "meeting" with no interruptions and I am positive she realizes how much all of this means to me.
You recommended I have a conversation about the intimacy issues. I actually did mention that but explained that it was just "one more thing" on my list and noted that "we didn't have to discuss it". The reason I mentioned the latter is because we have discussed this. In fact, we've discussed this over and over and over again. No reason to beat a dead horse. With regard to intimacy, this may be the boat I'm stuck in forever. She has put in a little effort into trying to "fix" the issue but I don't think she tries very hard. As she no longer cares about these kinds of things, she doesn't feel "broken" so doesn't feel she needs to "fix" anything. I suppose it's not enough to just attempt it for my sake.
We have discussed making changes in our lives where we will spend more time together - just the two of us. Our house feels "alive" at times because we have so many children and a few pets. We've made note that we need to get breaks from all of that so we can relax and...be "me" and "you" instead of "Mommy" and "Daddy" all the time.
You also mentioned being spontaneous and doing little things for her from time to time. You know, this one is really funny to me. I used to do those things - all the time. Many of my gifts to her were personal - they took time, effort, planning, etc. to get together. Anything from her is just from a store like, "here's this thing you said you wanted" or "I thought you might like this". I'm not complaining about those but she never puts any effort into things like this. The desire to do these things, for me, just kind of faded over time. I find myself unhappy in so many ways so often it almost doesn't feel right to do such a thing for her any more. But, having said that, I thought to myself a few months ago that I would try to get back on that wagon and see if this would help us in any way. Our anniversary is in a few months and I've been programming a video game for her play on the big day. As she plays through, she'll uncover "Artifacts" and, with each one, she'll be getting a prize in the real world as well. And of course, because I'm making the game, it's filled with places, people, and events that she'll recognize and will make her smile or laugh. I think she's going to go nuts when she gets her hands on this and I can't wait to see her play it. I've done other little things for her as well but, if after this game, nothing changes around here, I'll probably stop doing things like this altogether. It's like scratching backs but I'm the only one scratching.
I like that you said what people get out of relationships are experiences. I like this a lot. It just sums up sooooo much. I think I'm going to tell her this, soon, and explain that EVERYTHING we do to and for and with each other is an experience but I've had too many bad ones. We need to work on shifting this so I get some "good" out of life every once in a while.
Thank you so much, again, for your response.
Mirage
ReplyMy relationship is enough similar to yours in many ways. I'm the high-drive partner but get no sex or intimacy usually. I try to organize things and create systems and places to put or throw things away but he usually doesn't bother. He does do some chores so I have to give credit. But he resents me if he thinks he did more than me in a day or week.
What I have been getting out of my relationship is basically companionship, sometimes help or support if I really need it, help paying the bills and inconsistently a few other things.
I think people just get complacent and set in habits. They don't address their issues when they need to so they snowball. And it sounds like what it is is she has some kind of mental or emotional need/love language you're not speaking so that kind of trumps the physical offerings of chores and things. It does for most women. If they really, really need this one thing to feel good about your relationship and you show love but in a different way, there can be a huge, unnecessary disconnect. Also she definitely needs help mentally after the swinging stuff. I had a similar ish situation where I got hurt and our marriage suffered because he didn't understand what happened/what I was going through and I got no support or help at all.
It's tough out there. Both partners have to be willing to work for it. Being sex starved for your partner's health and well being is sometimes necessary unfortunately. I try to craft or go to the gym or just go somewhere. It still hurts me and drives me crazy though if I let myself think about it.
ReplyAs I stated in a previous reply to another post here, several days have past since I posted the original message.
I want to thank you for taking the time to read my message and respond. I've read over this and I really appreciate your feedback here.
I like that you said people can think of love in different ways and explained, essentially, that I may be treating chores as "I cleaned all this stuff because I love you" and, quite possibly, she's chilling on the couch thinking "I don't care that you cleaned all that stuff, I really need a date night." Man, this is powerful stuff and can certainly be something I expose to her in an upcoming conversation. I get this funny feeling I'm about to learn something truthful from my wife.
I also like that you said people get complacent and that the issues snowball. I honestly feel like that's something happening here.
I didn't take a deep dive into the swinging thing in my original post and almost wish I had left that part out but, because you've spoken to that directly, I want to respond. It sounds like you were once in the lifestyle as well and that it didn't go well for you and I'm terribly sorry to hear that. It's easy to understand that it's not for everyone.
In the early days, my wife and I were both very sexual and had sex a lot. I don't think it's typical that a husband would just, out of the blue, ask his wife if they could become swingers but, because we were so "active", I thought I'd ask. She was hurt and explained that this question made her feel like she's not enough for me or that I don't love her. I explained that I do love her and that I still wanted to have sex with her but also wanted us to sleep with other people to really push the envelope and spice things up. She wasn't interested so I let it drop. About a year later, she joined me on a business trip and this town we were in had a swinger club. We had some drinks and I asked if she'd like to go and, to my dismay, she said "yes". We had so much fun there that night that we wound up going back the next two nights as well and, when we returned home, she said she really liked that so wanted to start swinging at home too. We made rules for ourselves detailing what we would and would not be comfortable with. Using an app, of course there's an app, we started finding other couples and doing the deed. It was great for a long time but, after the baby was born, she just lost the desire to have sex any more. Maybe she was unhappy with me, maybe it was the medication (this is a known side effect of the meds), or if it was something else, but she just kind of....stopped. We weren't having sex at home much any more but we still went out swinging from time to time. I tried often (because I felt deprived) but it's hard to make arrangements as everyone stays so busy all the time. Still, we did do it with other couples for the next few years. Then, one day, we were at home having drinks, just the two of us, and she said that she didn't really like doing it. She said she had not liked doing it for a long time (about the time she stopped wanting to have sex at home) but kept on for me. She was hoping we could stop as she really doesn't like it any more and I agreed. And so it came to pass that, on that day, I agreed to pretty much not have sex with her any more and definitely not have sex with others. Some of our old "friends" hit me up a few times and I could have, easily, gone out on several occasions and done this but I didn't do it. I didn't want to lose this relationship. The "no sex thing" is so bad, though, that I thought about doing it and just not telling her. I just can't bring myself to do it.
I also hear you say that being sex starved for your partner's health and well being is sometimes necessary. I have done my part then, for years. And I wonder, as well, why we can't flip that. I want to do something; she does not. I feel locked into a "ok, we won't do that any more" status and I'm going crazy because of it. For this reason, my health and well being isn't well at the moment. Maybe the roles need to reverse from time to time. Look, I know you don't like to do this and, for that reason, I've not done it 987 of the last 999 days. But I'm not feeling well now and I'd like you to do it for my health and well being. I don't know, I'm hearing what you're saying but it doesn't seem fair that if we feel very differently about this activity, her version of things has to be the right one all the time.
Thanks again for your response. This is really helpful.
Mirage
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